[Wikipedia-l] Repost: clear guidelines and the power to enforce them

Fri Nov 8 22:45:30 UTC 2002

On Fri, 2002-11-08 at 15:34, Poor, Edmund W wrote:
> We must have clear guidelines and the power to enforce them, or valuable
> contributors like Julie, Larry, Maveric, Elian and many more will just
> quit -- the aggravation is just not worth it.

That's one opinion. There are a number of assertions there that are not
necessarily valid, nor is the syllogism necessarily valid.

> If the rules are not clear, we have to rely on Jimbo or Lee or Brion
> to make a decision, inform us and then we have to spend a week or two
> discussing it.

I really don't know where you have this idea that Lee or Brion have any
special authority to make decisions about participants. There are 15
developers, including me. None of us have any legitimate authority to
ban users, etc. I'm at a loss as to why you think we should assert
baldly that there is a hierarchy of authority determined not by merit
but simply by accidents of code access.

> When I taught Sunday School, I just gave trouble-makers a time-out for:
> * hitting another pupil
> * grabbing something (a book, a chair) from another pupil
> * teasing another pupil
> 
> Within a half-dozen classes, I had nearly perfect order -- and, to top it off,
> my class doubled in size! Kids started calling me Uncle Ed, and
> everyone wanted to be in my class? Why? Because they liked getting
> time-outs?
> 
> No, because they knew that no one would (1) hit them, (2) grab their things, or (3) tease them.

This isn't Sunday School. We're not being taught by Uncle Ed. We're not
being forced to do this by our parents. Let's not get carried away by
false analogies...

> Let's come up with a set of guidelines and figure out how to give
> admins the power to enforce them -- in a way that does not curtail
> the ability of contributors to fulfill the mission of Wikipedia.

I really think you're barking up the wrong tree here. 

Civility is a laudable goal and a reasonable expectation for Wikipedia.

Civility enforced by a police force is not.

Rather, we should each be able to control our own behavior, and that
goes for the people who feel aggrieved by loonies or robotic
personalities as well.

Again, none of us is being forced to do this. The psychology of the
conflicts that arise in Wikipedia is not complicated, and they can
usually be defused simply, without giving particular groups of people
powers over others.