[Wikipedia-l] Repost: clear guidelines and the power to enforce them

Fri Nov 8 21:22:19 UTC 2002

Ed Poor is repeating himself, apparently because no one has paid
attention to his sensible remarks, so I will do the same.  Ed talks of
Sunday School, I will speak of my experience moderating open mailing
lists on the Internet.

One of these lists was for a group of non-religous recovering
alcoholics.  The other was a company list for experts in a
software-development tool that, frankly, required serious attention
from experts to be used at its best.  I was neither alcoholic nor
software support.  Both lists had their cranks, and certainly strong
opinions were the norm.  

On both lists, I left discussion wide open, but retained for myself
the privilege of chiding and chastening when then conversation got out
of hand.  Inevitably, these interventions of mine were followed by
periods of profound silence, even from those who had not offended in
any way, and then open discussion would slowly resume.  I only banned
one person from the alcoholic list and no one from the company list.

People are confusing the Wikipedia (particularly talk pages) with the
Usenet.  If non-participating "moderators" were willing to jump in,
delete nonsense from talk pages, and enforce civility, even incoherent
or ideological contributors can learn NPOV.

Exactly how this would work, I don't know.  It seems that at least one
Wikipedia elder is trying but sometimes has a chip on his shoulder.
Nonetheless, I know from experience it is possible to foster civility
without hampering discourse.

This is never happening more than a few places at any one time and I
believe it is possible to stop it when it occurs.

Tom Parmenter
Ortolan88

|From: "Poor, Edmund W" <Edmund.W.Poor at abc.com>
|Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 15:34:25 -0500
|
|We must have clear guidelines and the power to enforce them, or
|valuable contributors like Julie, Larry, Maveric, Elian and many more
|will just quit -- the aggravation is just not worth it. 
|
|If the rules are not clear, we have to rely on Jimbo or Lee or Brion
|to make a decision, inform us and then we have to spend a week or two
|discussing it. 
|
|When I taught Sunday School, I just gave trouble-makers a time-out for:
|* hitting another pupil
|* grabbing something (a book, a chair) from another pupil
|* teasing another pupil
|
|Within a half-dozen classes, I had nearly perfect order -- and, to
|top it off, my class doubled in size! Kids started calling me Uncle
|Ed, and everyone wanted to be in my class? Why? Because they liked
|getting time-outs? 
|
|No, because they knew that no one would (1) hit them, (2) grab their
|things, or (3) tease them. 
|
|Let's come up with a set of guidelines and figure out how to give
|admins the power to enforce them -- in a way that does not curtail
|the ability of contributors to fulfill the mission of Wikipedia. 
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